Men in Mind for Pharmacists — Part 2
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Pharmacy

Part 2: Meet him where he's at

Men in Mind is an online training program built to help primary care professionals get the most out of every interaction with a male patient.

Part of Movember's work to change the face of men’s health, the course draws on leading research, the lived experience of men and primary care knowledge to unpack how masculinity shapes the way men seek help, communicate and engage in care.

The course is the first of its kind worldwide.

Part 2: Meet him where he's at

Part 2: Meet him where he's at

Part 1 was about what men carry into healthcare.Part 2 is about what you do once he's in front of you.


Your counter is often the easiest door a man will walk through. But walking up isn't the same as opening up. The same masculinities that made asking for help feel like failing don't switch off once he's there. They shape what he says, what he holds back, and whether he comes back at all.

So the backpack is right there at the counter with you. You don't have to carry it for him, but the way you respond can help him unload a brick or two.

Part 2: Meet him where he's at

Hear from the experts

Hear from some of the experts about practical ways they adapt their approach when working with men.
Click to watch

James Georgiou

The way that you ask the question, the way you're talking, the words that you use, the ability to gauge their understanding is everything.

Brad Butt

Don't be scared to have conversations that might feel awkward or uncomfortable. Practice, practice, practice, and try and make a real difference because it's not that tricky.

James Georgiou

I can just own it and say, "Yeah, no worries. If I didn't work in a pharmacy, I wouldn't know how to put a prescription in either."

Anna Georgiou

Even when you're dispensing that script, putting in their patient notes, Mr. Blah, blah, blah likes playing golf on the weekends. Even something like that that you can go like, "Oh, how was your golf?" And having them open up that way, giving them something to talk about, and then that gives you a really good segue into talking about their health and having them open up to you a bit more.

Brad Butt

"While I've got you, I've got two minutes. Come and I'll check your blood pressure." And it's a conversation starter. "I've got a quiet space. I've got 10 minutes. Why don't we just have a quick chat? Come on, let's go."

James Georgiou

Straight away, trying to talk to them in a way that is like, "No, mate, we're just friends. Let's get this sorted. What do you need? I'm happy to help."

Anna Georgiou

You have to change things in the way you speak to people to come to their level and what they're used to speaking like. Give them written information, highlight the important bits, just in layman's terms.

Brad Butt

Sometimes it's just about having that magical interaction with one person where it penny drop moment, "Yeah, actually, I feel more comfortable and this is all starting to make sense."

James Georgiou

You can see the cogs begin to turn, understanding their health and the reasons why these things are happening.

2.1: Ask, don't assume

2.1 Ask, don't assume

What he tells you is usually only part of it.


What a man learned growing up shapes how he reads his symptoms, what he says out loud and whether he comes back. What he tells you is usually only part of it.

So stay curious, especially with someone you don't know. Notice the conclusion you've already reached and hold off on it until he's told you more.

When working with male patients, two assumptions are worth catching.

1. Don't assume "fine" means fine

Minimising isn't the same as being okay. It's a presentation style, built over years of being told that showing weakness costs you.

When a man's answers shut down fast, or "I'm fine" sits next to something that doesn't look fine, that's your cue to ask one more question. You won't always have long. Two moves work even in a short exchange.

Tips

›

Use his own words. Echo his language back. It shows you've listened, and it's softer than "Are you sure you're okay?"

Tips

›

Quantify before you qualify. A number is easier to give than a feeling. It gives him a clear task that doesn't need the emotional words, and can be an easy way to hear how bad things really are from a man who's played it down.

Macdonald and colleagues (2022) prepared a literature review for the Australian Government Department of Health and Aged Care on men's and boys' barriers to health system access. Problem minimisation, the need for self-reliance, and stoicism or emotional control emerged as the most consistent individual-level barriers men bring into clinical encounters, with symptom minimisation in particular shaping not just what men disclose but whether what they disclose is acted on. Access the paper here.

Markowitz (2022) used natural language processing to analyse 1.8 million caregiver notes (502 million words) from a large US hospital. Consistent with non-linguistic evidence of bias in medicine, physicians focused more on the emotions of women compared to men and focused more on the scientific and bodily diagnoses of men compared to women. This pattern held regardless of the clinician's own gender. Access the paper here.

2.1 Ask, don't assume

2. Don't assume it's the whole story


Most men reach your counter with a physical request: something for sleep, fatigue, pain, erectile dysfunction. Treat the request as the way in, not the destination.

For many men with depression or anxiety, the body is the safest way in. Physical symptoms feel real in a way emotional distress doesn't, and they're often the only language he has for it.

This isn't always avoidance. Many men have never learned the words for what they're feeling. Clinically that's called alexithymia, or male normative alexithymia: difficulty putting feelings into words, shaped by a lifetime of being told not to.

So when a man asks for something for fatigue, poor sleep, headaches or low libido, the physical symptom may be the truest account he can give. Stay with it, get specific and let the rest come through.

Tips

›

Start with the body, then widen out. Begin with the physical symptom he's named. Get more specific about it. Then open it up. The physical symptom is the way in, but you have to go through it before he'll follow you anywhere else.

›

Offer the vocabulary, don't demand it. Asking "how does that make you feel?" may fail not because he won't answer but because he genuinely can't. Instead of asking him to come up with the word, offer it: "That sounds exhausting," or "That must have been frustrating." He can then agree, change it, or correct you.

Simons and colleagues (2025) analysed 10 years of Victorian data linking 6,423 people who died by suicide to their emergency department attendances in the year before death. Among the 2,779 who had attended the emergency department, 40% presented only with physical complaints; no mental-health flag, no flagged distress. The most common presentation was upper limb injury, most coded as "non-intentional harm." The decedents who presented this way were more likely to be older, male, and from regional areas. The paper makes the case for opportunistic engagement and screening at every clinical contact, not just those tagged as mental health. Access the paper here.

da Silva (2021) provides a clinical overview of alexithymia, the difficulty identifying and putting emotional experiences into words, alongside intervention guidelines for working with alexithymic clients. Particularly useful for understanding how to respond when a man arrives with somatic complaints as the only available language for distress, and how to help him build emotional vocabulary over time without demanding it. Access the paper here.

2.2: The MALE framework

2.2 The MALE framework

The MALE framework brings what works with men into four practices you can draw on individually or together. It's not a sequence, it's a toolkit.

Engagement with men gets far less attention than dispensing medication, even though you're making those calls at the counter every day. MALE gives you a way to do it on purpose, and shows which moves have the most impact with men.

Watch Dr Zac Seidler walk through the framework.

Watch Dr Zac Seidler walk through the framework.
Click to watch

Dr Zac Seidler

The good news is that the bricks in a man's backpack aren't just barriers.

Those same expectations — things like strength, responsibility, independence or loyalty — can also be powerful motivators.

That's why we use bricks as the metaphor.

Because while bricks can weigh someone down, they can also build something.

When we recognise the bricks men may be carrying, it can change the way we approach the interaction.

Even in short conversations, small shifts can make a real difference.

So how do we do that in practice?

That's where the MALE framework comes in.

These aren't new or specialised skills. They reflect the core elements of good healthcare interactions that most of us use every day with the men we see. What the MALE framework does is highlight the specific aspects of these interactions that tend to matter most when working with men.

Make a connection. Agree on a path. Land a message. Ease him into the next step.

It's not a rigid set of steps and it's not a linear process. Think of it as a set of evidence-based practices you can draw on and emphasise, depending on the situation and the time you have. Each one works with the grain of how men engage, turning what men bring to the room into an asset rather than an obstacle.

Even small adjustments within these familiar parts of an interaction can make a meaningful difference in how men engage with care.

Tap each card to reveal what it stands for.

MTap to reveal
Make a connection
ATap to reveal
Agree on a path
LTap to reveal
Land a message
ETap to reveal
Ease him into the next step

Ready? Let's start with M: Make a connection.

Seidler et al. (2024) conducted a scoping review of 97 studies on gender-responsive approaches to engaging men in primary healthcare. Across counselling, general practice, nursing, pharmacy and social work, 33 distinct approaches converged on a core set of practices: building trust early, using collaborative and strengths-based framing, adapting communication to men's language, and providing a clear rationale for treatment. Access the paper here.

2.3: M — Make a connection

2.3 M — Make a connection

Many men who make contact with the healthcare system are being lost.


  • Two in three Australian men report gender stereotypes have affected their health behaviours and experiences in healthcare settings (Movember, 2024).
  • 67% of Australian men have either left a healthcare practitioner or wanted to, mostly because they didn't feel a personal connection (Movember, 2024).

Connection is what brings men back. A man who walks away feeling the health system isn't built for him, that he isn't understood as a man, or that he had to translate himself to be heard, is less likely to come back when he needs to.

"You're not treated as delicately, I guess. You're a tough guy. You can deal with it."

Evan, 52 years

Seidler et al. (2025) ran focus groups with 32 Australian men about what works and what doesn't in their healthcare encounters. The strongest finding: the desire to be cared for with warmth. Access the paper here.


A man in conversation at the pharmacy counter

Practical tools

Make a connection

Assessment activity  ·  Meet him where he's at


Watch this short video — M: Make a connection — and then answer the questions that follow.
Click to watch

Brad

I was already feeling vulnerable. I was feeling weak because of that vulnerability. And I was going to a stranger where I had to ask for help.

Kenneth

Why am I scared to go to the doctor? Not scared about what I'm going to find out about my health. I don't want to talk to this guy because I feel like he's going to yell at me.

David

You're already exhausted, and when you go along and you don't connect, I think a lot of us just say, "It doesn't work, this stuff."

Cooper

I sat down, I burst into tears, and I said, "I'm not coping." And she goes, "That's fine. That's completely normal. Let's get you sorted."

James

I really think about just how curious he was, and that really helped me just be like, oh, he really cares about me and how I'm going and how I'm feeling.

William

Building up that kind of rapport really helped me feel comfortable in sharing those kind of smaller problems and those more intimate problems that I didn't feel confident previously being able to share.

Andrei

I would like to think that they've got an interest in your complete recovery, not just their component of it.

Kenneth

If a patient feels like you care, the outcome's going to be much better. They're going to try a lot harder as well.


Kenneth says: "If a patient feels like you care, the outcome's going to be much better. They're going to try a lot harder as well." What does this tell us about making a connection?

Assessment activity  ·  Meet him where he's at

Spot the technique


2.4: A — Agree on a path

2.4 A — Agree on a path

A — Agree on a path


Many men see themselves through self-reliance and being in charge of their own life. When healthcare feels like something done to them, not with them, those instincts kick in as resistance. Resistance shows up as disengagement. Men who feel shut down when they ask questions, or who receive a management plan without being genuinely involved in it, are less likely to come back (Seidler et al., 2025).


A man in conversation at the pharmacy counter

Practical tools

Agree on a path

A — Agree on a path


Watch this short video — A: Agree on a path.
Click to watch

Brad

Having a sense of self-agency when making health decisions is critical. My sense of masculinity means I want to retain strength and resilience.

William

Often, I found that I was never given options, like, "Okay, here's the treatment, here's what you do. Come back in six weeks." I think when I haven't had that kind of open relationship, it becomes really tricky to question that and work out what to do next.

Andrei

You have to be part of the solution. Your health needs to be tailored to you. But in order for that to occur, they need to allow you to do that.

Azhaan

He was just super respectful about it. I think what's interesting is he was okay with me not taking it. He was like, "Oh, if you don't want to take it, that's completely fine." And hearing that from him made me feel like, oh, no, maybe I can take it. The fact that he was giving me that agency made it feel like I'm picking this option. It's not something that's being forced on me. I'm going to change because I want to change, and that goes really far.

Kai

She talks me through all of the options available, the pros and cons of each of the options. It's important because I'm able to stay conscious of the decisions that I'm making.

Andrei

She'll often say, "Well, what do you think?" She's happy to hear my perspective, happy to hear my thoughts on what the options are.

David

Having a doctor that was willing to partner with me, not dictate to me, created that sense of empowerment, that sense of control.

James

And what that meant was, is then I then kept going back to my GP so we could actually spend time trying to nut out what the best process is and how to go from there.

David

Getting a sense of agency, getting a sense of, "I'm doing this with the help of you people," as opposed to, "You're all going to drag me through it." I think it's everything.

2.5: L — Land a message

2.5 L — Land a message

L — Land a message


On top of all this, remember that he's likely to be flying blind. Stoicism and self-reliance make this riskier on both sides: he might not understand you, and if he doesn't, he's unlikely to say so. Landing a message means making sure it actually lands — pitched in language he can use, delivered with the care that lets him take it in.


A man in conversation at the pharmacy counter

Practical tools

Land a message

L — Land a message


Watch this short video — L: Land a message.
Click to watch

Kenneth

I'm a pretty well-read person, but I find out things today about my health that no one ever told me. And it's not until you ask the question that you ever get anything close to an answer.

Cooper

Having your doctor who takes the time to inform you is something that I think sets you up for success.

Andrei

The best thing they can do is to talk you through that and say, "Look, you've got this. I believe that your condition is X."

Brad

Give me an example of that. I found that was a really great tool the doctor used. That helped her to understand my situation better, and it helped me to explain more, and we both got a better understanding of each other.

Cooper

She'd go, "I'm going to put you on a new prescription. Here's an info sheet on side effects that you should look out for — things that, if you find any worries, here's what you should look for."

Brad

It's also taking the time to understand the system — the difference between Medicare, what's available, what's not, what's chargeable, what's bulk billed, the difference between a healthcare plan for mental health or a chronic condition.

Andrei

It takes a bit to learn that.

David

Really sharp guy, but he doesn't show it. He just talks through things. But he treats you as a genuine partner and explains things — the drugs, and why are we doing this and doing that.

Kenneth

It's getting a sense of who the patient is to then understand: does this person understand what I'm telling them, and what do they need to know?

2.6: E — Ease him into the next step

2.6 E — Ease him into the next step

E — Ease him into the next step


Self-reliance and the need for control mean many men respond badly to feeling overwhelmed or managed. But many also don't have the skills to navigate the health system once they leave the room. Easing the next step is about keeping his sense of control while making the ask small enough that the system itself doesn't get in the way.


A man in conversation at the pharmacy counter

Practical tools

Ease him into the next step

Assessment activity  ·  Meet him where he's at


Watch this short video — E: Ease him into the next step — and then answer the questions that follow.
Click to watch

Kai

She makes sure that I have the supports there, and if I feel like I don't, she books in another appointment with me so that I can check in with her. It just feels so weird to be supported.

James

"We're going to work on some tools or work on some referrals so you can go and speak to the people you need to speak to about your mental health." In separate batches, as opposed to this blanket fire all strategy.

Kenneth

It's a two-way street. So they'll listen. They want to know what's going on. They tell you to do particular things — "Go and see this physio," or do whatever it might be. But then they want to know the outcome, and they seem to follow up the records as well.

William

She had this pamphlet of different medications and things like that, and we talked it over together. She's like, "Okay, come back. We'll assess how things are going." And it's made life a lot easier — you feel listened to, you feel heard, and you know that if anything ever comes up, there's that safety net and there's that safe space you can go to.

Kai

My GP said, "I look forward to seeing you in my next session." That made me feel like there was someone waiting for me.

James

It wasn't a whole starting the process again. It was like, "Yeah, we were up to that from last time. Here we are now."

Tom

He was firm on the fact that I wasn't leaving there without a clear plan of what was coming next and a referral or two. That felt like care for me for the first time in a long time, and it felt different — and I needed different to what I'd been experiencing. So, yeah, it was really important.


James describes his practitioner working through "tools and referrals in separate batches as opposed to this blanket fire all strategy." Why does this work?


James says of returning to his practitioner: "It wasn't a whole starting the process again. It was, yeah, we were up to that from last time. Here we are now." What does this tell us about return visits with men?


Starting with one small step is the usual advice. When should you not hold back?

2.6 E — Ease him into the next step

Reflect on your practice.


Pause for a mo'

Review the MALE framework and reflect on your own practice. Identify three practical tools that would work well with your male patients and describe how you would apply them. How could these changes improve the safety, acceptability or effectiveness of the care you provide?

✓ Saved

Part 2 complete

You've reached the end of Part 2: Meet him where he's at.


You've explored a practical, evidence-based framework for engaging male patients at the counter and in the consult room, in ways that account for the specific barriers masculine norms create.

In Part 2, you covered:

  • 2.1 Ask, don't assume — don't assume "fine" means fine, and don't assume it's the whole story
  • 2.2 The MALE framework — four practices you can draw on individually or together
  • 2.3 M — Make a connection
  • 2.4 A — Agree on a path
  • 2.5 L — Land a message
  • 2.6 E — Ease him into the next step

Coming up

Part 3: Behind the script — how men's distress can hide behind a request, and what you can do to reach the man behind it.

Additional resources

Tick the resources you'd like to keep, then email them to yourself. Anything you saved with the bookmark button as you moved through the module is already ticked for you.

    Tip: save resources as you go using the bookmark button inside each "MOUSTACHES LOVE RESEARCH" panel.

    Your reflections

    Review everything you wrote during the module, and email or print a copy to keep for your own records.

    You have now completed this module. Click ‘Next’ in the bottom right hand corner to continue to the next module.

    DEV ONLY

    Internal reference

    Version History

    Current version: v2.21

    Each entry represents one round of committed changes. Version 1.0 = go-live.

    • The photographs fit their frames. Every video tile that shows a photograph of one person was enlarging it and cutting off the top and bottom of their face. They now sit in the frame exactly as they were taken.
    • Videos line up with the writing around them. On most screens the video sat narrower than the text and slightly to the right of it; it now fills the same column.
    • The same header and the same buttons in every part. Part 2 carried a smaller logo, no section name beside the progress bar, and its own button styling.
    • Quote screens are on black in every part, with the quotation marks easing in, and the Pause for a mo’ that sat on one of them has moved to the end of the screen before it.
    • A highlighted word now inks in purple. On the practical tools it was turning black against a dark photograph and disappearing.
    • The right expert on the right video. Videos introduced by one presenter show that presenter, and their transcripts name them.
    • Every man who is introduced by name now has his own photograph on the video tile, rather than the rotating set.
    • A tick replaces the circle on the “Just a starting point” note, and draws itself on as the screen arrives.
    • The crying-in-context screen is two panels, the copy beside the illustration, lined up with the Pause for a mo’ box below it.
    • The experts’ videos now look like the rest. Every video of a clinician or pharmacist opens on a photograph of them, with the caption on the same bar underneath that the men’s videos use.
    • A screen about one man shows that man. Where a video introduces someone by name, his own photograph fills the tile instead of the rotating set.
    • “View my reflections” is a button. In every Pause for a mo’ it now matches Save response instead of sitting beside it as a text link.
    • The quotation marks arrive and breathe. On every photograph that carries them they fade in and lift very slightly every few seconds.
    • The men’s stories now open on a photograph. Where a video of a man sharing his experience used to sit behind a plain black panel, it now moves through photographs of men from the Movember community, with the caption and the play button on a bar along the bottom so nothing covers a face.
    • A new look for the learning outcomes. The outcomes that open the course are numbered and set against a strip of portraits that changes as you read. The wording is exactly as it was.
    • The panels line up. Quote boxes, tip boxes and the practical tools used to sit at several different widths down the same page. They now share one.
    • Easier to read. TIP boxes and the feedback after a question are set at the same size as the rest of the body copy, and the “try saying” suggestions are bold and arrive one at a time.
    • A video slide that sat hard against the left edge is centred again. On the MALE framework screen in Part 2 the words and the video had drifted to one side of the page.
    • The grey band is gone from the expandable panels. Opening a “Moustaches love research” panel used to draw a shadow across the top of the text it revealed. Those panels, and the expandable stages, now sit flat inside their card the way the questions already did.
    • The Australian Government department has been renamed to the Department of Health, Disability and Ageing. Its logo is updated on the certificate.
    • A polish pass. The navigation screen now shows the real buttons, photographs and video boxes have a soft white edge, quotes that carry a source are set in the Men in Mind quote panel with its hand-drawn moustache, the expandable questions carry a moustache of their own, and several of the illustrations now move.
    • Straight into the content. The “How to navigate” and FAQ screens have been removed from this part — you have already seen them in Part 1, and they are still there if you want them.
    • Running the new RTL engine. Every control now has depth and lifts when you point at it, moving forward and back look different from each other, content rises in as you scroll, and video transcripts can follow the audio and be clicked to jump.
    • First build of MIM Pro v2. Version numbering restarts here, and this entry consolidates every v0.x change that came before it.
    • Everything you press now looks like it: the “Moustaches love research” panels, video tiles, the “Optional – click to respond” button, flip cards and answer options all carry the same shadow and lift.
    • A preview build, published to the test host only. Apart from the changes listed above, the course is exactly the live one.
    My reflections